NS Cliches: Rebooted

by **Fascist Voxija** » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:14 am

Nations where everyone thinks the same, politically, as if they were a hive mind. And nations that say they have ethnic minorities in their factbooks, but they aren't represented in RP or Forum 7, not even a bit.

by **Free Stalliongrad** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:25 pm

So, why do many users tag a thread with a post to follow it when the site allows you to bookmark it?

by **Gandoor** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:17 pm

Free Stalliongrad wrote:So, why do many users tag a thread with a post to follow it when the site allows you to bookmark it?

People are lazy. Like you don't even need to bookmark the thread using the forum's bookmark feature, you can literally bookmark threads using your damn web browser.

I do find it hilarious that the TAGS ARE TAGSPAM THREAD is 11 pages cause apparently people just don't learn. (I don't think I've actually seen anyone get warned for tagging threads, except maybe if they just reply to a bunch of threads at once with just 'tag' but not one-offs)

by **Qhevak** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:08 am

Valentine Z wrote:So... not a cliche, but I just thought I don't see these too often. Trends (or lack of), if you will:

Not a lot of Halo stuff as well. I think I saw a Covenant nation once, and a Flood-based one, but none of the extended lore and planets. Hmm...

In my experience Halo is just about the most popular source for unoriginal FT nations other than maybe Star Wars. Been on here since 2011 though, so maybe it's just declined in the past few years.

by **Free Stalliongrad** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:55 am

Gandoor wrote:
Free Stalliongrad wrote:So, why do many users tag a thread with a post to follow it when the site allows you to bookmark it?

People are lazy. Like you don't even need to bookmark the thread using the forum's bookmark feature, you can literally bookmark threads using your damn web browser.

I do find it hilarious that the TAGS ARE TAGSPAM THREAD is 11 pages cause apparently people just don't learn. (I don't think I've actually seen anyone get warned for tagging threads, except maybe if they just reply to a bunch of threads at once with just 'tag' but not one-offs)

One thing I thought is that a lot of people do it just to see if an RPG will be followed by other players so they can play it too.
I'm just sorry for that player who goes so hard to create a noteworthy OP and instead of finding a subscription to his RPG, he finds this post tag.

by **Feyrisshire** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:12 am

Fascist Voxija wrote:And nations that say they have ethnic minorities in their factbooks, but they aren't represented in RP or Forum 7, not even a bit.

To be fair this is true to real life as lots of RL nations have ethnic minorities but none of them gets any thought or say in national affairs.

by **New Carthagea** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:45 am

Feyrisshire wrote:
Fascist Voxija wrote:And nations that say they have ethnic minorities in their factbooks, but they aren't represented in RP or Forum 7, not even a bit.

To be fair this is true to real life as lots of RL nations have ethnic minorities but none of them gets any thought or say in national affairs.

It do be like that.

by **Khoronzon** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:23 am

Since unoriginal FT nations were mentioned, here's something else on that note I'd like to bring up - there's an awful lot of WH40K-based nations, but I don't think I've seen a single one that actually fits the atmosphere of the franchise. It's almost always Imperium-wank, and even in rare cases of nations being based on factions other than the Imperium it's still just standard FT dickwaving. At no point do you really feel the Imperium's stagnation and loss of direction with the Emperor's fall, its resources and bureaucracy stretched thin, its trying its best to keep itself alive in a galaxy full of overbearing hostility both surrounding and infiltrating it, and so on. At best you'll see a few offhand mentions of hive cities, intense stratification, and human wave tactics, but it's really just window dressing and never changes the "feel" of the entire thing.

by **Kiu Ghesik** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:24 am

Khoronzon wrote:Since unoriginal FT nations were mentioned, here's something else on that note I'd like to bring up - there's an awful lot of WH40K-based nations, but I don't think I've seen a single one that actually fits the atmosphere of the franchise. It's almost always Imperium-wank, and even in rare cases of nations being based on factions other than the Imperium it's still just standard FT dickwaving. At no point do you really feel the Imperium's stagnation and loss of direction with the Emperor's fall, its resources and bureaucracy stretched thin, its trying its best to keep itself alive in a galaxy full of overbearing hostility both surrounding and infiltrating it, and so on. At best you'll see a few offhand mentions of hive cities, intense stratification, and human wave tactics, but it's really just window dressing and never changes the "feel" of the entire thing.

Honestly 40K itself has lost that feel recently, at least for me, so I think it's only fair that most of the nations here based on it can't replicate it.

by **Bloodshade** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:07 am

Khoronzon wrote:~~It also doesn't help that the questions I'm due to answer are really hard, dangit Bloodshade.~~

Kiu Ghesik wrote:Bloodshade tends to do that. I'm glad to know that I managed to give 'em just as tough a question in my reply to that thread

Oh oop I was mentioned

Yeah, my questions might be somewhat hard to answer but I always frame them in a way that can help someone think about their lore in certain ways.

From my experience, it helps a lot when someone asks me a difficult question because it just helps my creative juices f l o w

Plus, I don't think my lore is that important to go and ask someone questions about on their own Q&A. It's just not good etiquette in my opinion unless you decide to at least make some connection to their lore so maybe both can compare and contrast. That's just my two cents anyways.

I might or might not decide to pop in and give a round of questions to a bunch of y'all.

by **Valentine Z** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:59 am

Should this be in cliche? I have no idea, but maybe it will fit in. ^^;

Threads that garner A LOT of activity, then it just drops. Plop. It's very, very extreme to the point of "One day there are 100 posts / day, then the next day, or next few days, 2-3 posts / day."

This happens quite often with Q&A threads, no matter who the person or the OP is - it can happen to an old-timer, or a newbie, or someone in-between. Threads get revived, then die, then revived again, like a trope of heartbeats and rhythms.

Also part of "It will never catch on."

by **Innovationist Eurasia** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:59 am

I've noticed there's a lot of alternate Russias and Soviet Unions, or at least they stick out to me.

Myself included.

by **Kiu Ghesik** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:10 am

Bloodshade wrote:
Khoronzon wrote:~~It also doesn't help that the questions I'm due to answer are really hard, dangit Bloodshade.~~

Kiu Ghesik wrote:Bloodshade tends to do that. I'm glad to know that I managed to give 'em just as tough a question in my reply to that thread

Oh oop I was mentioned

Yeah, my questions might be somewhat hard to answer but I always frame them in a way that can help someone think about their lore in certain ways.

From my experience, it helps a lot when someone asks me a difficult question because it just helps my creative juices f l o w

Plus, I don't think my lore is that important to go and ask someone questions about on their own Q&A. It's just not good etiquette in my opinion unless you decide to at least make some connection to their lore so maybe both can compare and contrast. That's just my two cents anyways.

I might or might not decide to pop in and give a round of questions to a bunch of y'all.

Oh god.

~~Thanks too!~~

Valentine Z wrote:Should this be in cliche? I have no idea, but maybe it will fit in. ^^;

Threads that garner A LOT of activity, then it just drops. Plop. It's very, very extreme to the point of "One day there are 100 posts / day, then the next day, or next few days, 2-3 posts / day."

This happens quite often with Q&A threads, no matter who the person or the OP is - it can happen to an old-timer, or a newbie, or someone in-between. Threads get revived, then die, then revived again, like a trope of heartbeats and rhythms.

Also part of "It will never catch on."

I don't know, I've tried to keep at least my own on a drip-feed with just enough activity to keep it on the front page but I know I've fallen off doing that recently.

by **Gandoor** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:31 pm

In a bit more of a meta-sense, users who break a certain rule and continue to break that same damn rule even after being punished multiple times by the mods for doing it until they get perm banned.

Like due to reasons (read: clearing out my foes list of users who have long since CTE'd or gotten DEAT or worse), I was reminded of the user Freed Lymonia. For any of y'all who are too new to remember them, they were this user who would constantly threadjack threads here in F7 when replying to any nation that was left-wing or even left-leaning to rant about how terrible leftism is and how it's the worst and most murderous ideology (with the classic 'I don't know jackshit about what I'm talking about' thing of claiming that the Nazis were leftists because 'THEY WERE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS' [yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a multiparty republic with free and fair democratic elections).

And keep in mind, when I say that Freed Lymonia would constantly do this same shit, I don't mean like 'Oh they'd fall back into their old habits after a while of attempting to follow the rules', I mean they'd resume their threadjacking shit as soon as they got unbanned basically.

Naturally he got DOS because it was blatantly obvious that he thought the rules didn't apply to him.

by **Zeloria** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:21 am

Gandoor wrote:In a bit more of a meta-sense, users who break a certain rule and continue to break that same damn rule even after being punished multiple times by the mods for doing it until they get perm banned.

Like due to reasons (read: clearing out my foes list of users who have long since CTE'd or gotten DEAT or worse), I was reminded of the user Freed Lymonia. For any of y'all who are too new to remember them, they were this user who would constantly threadjack threads here in F7 when replying to any nation that was left-wing or even left-leaning to rant about how terrible leftism is and how it's the worst and most murderous ideology (with the classic 'I don't know jackshit about what I'm talking about' thing of claiming that the Nazis were leftists because 'THEY WERE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS' [yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a multiparty republic with free and fair democratic elections).

And keep in mind, when I say that Freed Lymonia would constantly do this same shit, I don't mean like 'Oh they'd fall back into their old habits after a while of attempting to follow the rules', I mean they'd resume their threadjacking shit as soon as they got unbanned basically.

Naturally he got DOS because it was blatantly obvious that he thought the rules didn't apply to him.

What kind of nation was Freed Lymonia? Did it had a factbook?

Edit: I've found them in the boneyard, and read their factbooks. They are some kind of weird conservative utopia, based in most of Eastern Europe, but has a weirdly American political system.

by **Silver Commonwealth** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am

Gandoor wrote:In a bit more of a meta-sense, users who break a certain rule and continue to break that same damn rule even after being punished multiple times by the mods for doing it until they get perm banned.

Like due to reasons (read: clearing out my foes list of users who have long since CTE'd or gotten DEAT or worse), I was reminded of the user Freed Lymonia. For any of y'all who are too new to remember them, they were this user who would constantly threadjack threads here in F7 when replying to any nation that was left-wing or even left-leaning to rant about how terrible leftism is and how it's the worst and most murderous ideology (with the classic 'I don't know jackshit about what I'm talking about' thing of claiming that the Nazis were leftists because 'THEY WERE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS' [yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a multiparty republic with free and fair democratic elections).

And keep in mind, when I say that Freed Lymonia would constantly do this same shit, I don't mean like 'Oh they'd fall back into their old habits after a while of attempting to follow the rules', I mean they'd resume their threadjacking shit as soon as they got unbanned basically.

Naturally he got DOS because it was blatantly obvious that he thought the rules didn't apply to him.

Freed Lymonia? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a while.

Anyways, yeah - I was around that time to remember it, and it was pain.

by **Zeloria** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:41 am

Freed Lymonia seems to me the kind of nation that would call functioning non-authoritarian leftist nations unrealistic, while being completely fine with sci fi/fantasy nations.

by **Synne Industries** » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:24 pm

You know, I've been going back through my PMT aircraft roster doing some redesigns and there's something I've noticed that's so damn obvious that I feel stupid for only seeing it now. It's a little phenomenon I like to call USAF syndrome and no, it doesn't only apply to military aircraft.

It seems that when it comes to a nation's military equipment you've either got the entire roster filled with equipment the nation didn't design from real life and storefronts or you've got a nation decked out entirely with domestically designed and produced equipment. But that's not the main point, because one could argue that only late MT and PMT nations go for the whole 'design your entire arsenal' route simply because we don't know what kind of newer equipment is coming in the future. The thing is, it's not the fact that the equipment is all original that gets to me, it's that when it is all of it seems to originate from the user's nation and nowhere else.

Many of these PMT nations just plop themselves into an alt-history Earth with varying degrees of alternativeness and call it a day. Well, guess what, it's still Earth and if you're keeping all these real Earth nations in your universe then you'll be keeping their arms corporations too. Placing yourself in a somewhat altered world 20-30 years in the future doesn't mean you're the only country that's going to be producing cutting edge weapons technologies. If the US is still in your universe then there's a damn good chance that Lockheed and Boeing are sticking around. If you've got Russia then Mikoyan-Gurevich and Sukhoi are going to be making things too. There's a distinct void of originally designed equipment that doesn't come from just the user's nation. It's not just that I'd love to see peoples' interpretations of future designs from existing groups, it's also because operating foreign-designed equipment is usually more economical and sometimes the only thing possible for giant military-industrial-scientific superpowers like the United States.

These two maps show the operators of the F-16 and MiG-21 respectively, there are so many because both are aircraft that do very damn well for their cost. What's to say Lockheed and Mikoyan-Gurevich won't design another superplane in an alt-Earth PMT universe? And as I said, it's not just aircraft-exclusive. Armored vehicles, sensor systems, satellites, small arms, munitions, very rarely can a country operate using exclusively its own equipment so I urge more MT and PMT nations to have some fun designing some future foreign weapons to work with domestic systems.

by **Valentine Z** » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:11 pm

Gandoor wrote:In a bit more of a meta-sense, users who break a certain rule and continue to break that same damn rule even after being punished multiple times by the mods for doing it until they get perm banned.

Like due to reasons (read: clearing out my foes list of users who have long since CTE'd or gotten DEAT or worse), I was reminded of the user Freed Lymonia. For any of y'all who are too new to remember them, they were this user who would constantly threadjack threads here in F7 when replying to any nation that was left-wing or even left-leaning to rant about how terrible leftism is and how it's the worst and most murderous ideology (with the classic 'I don't know jackshit about what I'm talking about' thing of claiming that the Nazis were leftists because 'THEY WERE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS' [yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a multiparty republic with free and fair democratic elections).

And keep in mind, when I say that Freed Lymonia would constantly do this same shit, I don't mean like 'Oh they'd fall back into their old habits after a while of attempting to follow the rules', I mean they'd resume their threadjacking shit as soon as they got unbanned basically.

Naturally he got DOS because it was blatantly obvious that he thought the rules didn't apply to him.

You forgot the "sidekick" - Kanna... err, something. That Anna Kendrick nation.

The way they went back and forth - with Lymonia getting increasingly annoyed, and Kanna not giving a shit, is something to behold, even if it disrupts threads.

Edit: It was crappy when they fight, or gave you that GIF reply, but... you know, for what it's worth, it was something else entirely to look back and reminiscent at.

by **Greater Cosmicium** » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:59 pm

Valentine Z wrote:
Gandoor wrote:In a bit more of a meta-sense, users who break a certain rule and continue to break that same damn rule even after being punished multiple times by the mods for doing it until they get perm banned.

Like due to reasons (read: clearing out my foes list of users who have long since CTE'd or gotten DEAT or worse), I was reminded of the user Freed Lymonia. For any of y'all who are too new to remember them, they were this user who would constantly threadjack threads here in F7 when replying to any nation that was left-wing or even left-leaning to rant about how terrible leftism is and how it's the worst and most murderous ideology (with the classic 'I don't know jackshit about what I'm talking about' thing of claiming that the Nazis were leftists because 'THEY WERE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS' [yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a multiparty republic with free and fair democratic elections).

And keep in mind, when I say that Freed Lymonia would constantly do this same shit, I don't mean like 'Oh they'd fall back into their old habits after a while of attempting to follow the rules', I mean they'd resume their threadjacking shit as soon as they got unbanned basically.

Naturally he got DOS because it was blatantly obvious that he thought the rules didn't apply to him.

You forgot the "sidekick" - Kanna... err, something. That Anna Kendrick nation.

The way they went back and forth - with Lymonia getting increasingly annoyed, and Kanna not giving a shit, is something to behold, even if it disrupts threads.

I still remember when I was involved in a multipost (like double-posting, except worse and more extensive) with them regarding pineapple pizza, and the time when I tried to purchase pineapples from them with lanthanum bars.

IIRC, their first nation was called "Kannadrickium", then they returned as "Kannadricken".

by **Federal Remnants** » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:32 pm

oh no here comes resident alt-america rehash #253

by **Khoronzon** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:26 pm

Here's a good one (mostly because I like having this thread around and don't want it to die) - perfectly morally upstanding characters and nations, usually either liberal democracies or liberal-leaning communist states and their corresponding leader figures who tend to have very little characterisation or goals beyond advancing some "good" ideological agenda in a flawlessly clean manner. I know ideological self-inserts and the like have already been talked about to death in this thread, but what I honestly find the most annoying is that they never have any moral nuance and always have this holier-than-thou attitude in interactions with characters who do. Their politicians do everything nicely and cleanly and have this unshaking devotion and integrity towards The People and go on to chastise everyone who isn't as immaculate as them like some kind of idealistic moral preacher. Every time I see a communist character on the forums going on about staying perfectly true to the cause of The Noble Worker it awakens McCarthyist urges in me that I never thought I had.

Of course, that isn't to say that the preacher bit in leader interactions is always boring, but personally I only find it tolerable when it's self-aware. S/o to Guyanese Commune for doing the prime example of that with their Jim Jones leader posts.

12 March 2022

Khoronzon wrote:Here's a good one (mostly because I like having this thread around and don't want it to die) - perfectly morally upstanding characters and nations, usually either liberal democracies or liberal-leaning communist states and their corresponding leader figures who tend to have very little characterisation or goals beyond advancing some "good" ideological agenda in a flawlessly clean manner. I know ideological self-inserts and the like have already been talked about to death in this thread, but what I honestly find the most annoying is that they never have any moral nuance and always have this holier-than-thou attitude in interactions with characters who do. Their politicians do everything nicely and cleanly and have this unshaking devotion and integrity towards The People and go on to chastise everyone who isn't as immaculate as them like some kind of idealistic moral preacher.

Of course, that isn't to say that the preacher bit in leader interactions is always boring, but personally I only find it tolerable when it's self-aware. S/o to Guyanese Commune for doing the prime example of that with their Jim Jones leader posts.

Yeah, I like my characters to have flaws. Morally flawless characters can get boring, and characters that are like I AM THE MOST EVIL THING AND EXISTENCE AND EVERYTHING I EXUDE IS EVIL can get tedious. But both can be executed well. Well-written characters are, at the end of the day, well-written characters.

by **Las Palmeras** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:44 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:Yeah, I like my characters to have flaws. Morally flawless characters can get boring, and characters that are like I AM THE MOST EVIL THING AND EXISTENCE AND EVERYTHING I EXUDE IS EVIL can get tedious.

Lol. Nandhaya Zepeda: Good with kids. Incorruptible. Wants to help the poor. Petty and perfectionist if you piss him off or fail him, will torture you with desk jobs.
...
Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to say that you shouldn't emulate Montserrat Zorilla.

by **Surrealist Patagonia** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:10 pm

Not to shill but I wrote Prime Minister Daryush Hosseinzadeh of Persagonian Republic as a morally corrupt yet competent and level-headed politician just to break the mold of idealistic liberal leaders.

NS Cliches: Rebooted

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